Politicians as MUCKers

[caraig]

Now, this is a subject that will get the goat of some people, make others say 'It's so true!' or just mildly amuse the majority of people. Or it may disturb people. So take it with a grain of salt, it's not supposed to be entirely serious or anything.

First, for those of you who are unfamiliar with the term, MUCKer refers to someone who plays on a MUCK. A MUCK is form of MUD, which stands for Multi-User Dungeon, an online multiplayer game, using only text, that predates Everquest et al by many years. if you have ever played Zork or another text adventure, then you have a single-player version of a MUD. MUCK itself was developed from MUD; nobody is really sure what MUCK stands for, though the argument can be made that it stands for "MUCK is Unusual, Crazy, and Kooky." Which is probably a reasonably good description. A MUCK is a MUD without statistics, system, or rules. It's basically role-playing without any sort of dice-rolling or conflict resolution system.

You know, I was going to make a huge essay about this but I found it was rambling needlessly as I usually do. So instead I'll make it short and open it up to commentary:

If you look at the majority of politicians from the perspective of kids who are playing characters on a MUCK who are in positions of power and want to keep those positions safe, and keep their friends safe from the assholes in the rest of the game, and do some Cool Stuff, then it all makes a sudden weird kind of sense.

And, no, this is no sort of slam on anyone. Characters come in all types and styles, as do people. Heck, if anything, this is more of a slam on politicians, I imagine. I just found it interesting that, if you think about it, there are similarities between politicians and characters in charge of factions on MUCKs.

Man, I think I'm loosing my gift of gab. Anyway, on to the commentary. Or lack thereof. Pax.

Comments

[points.livejournal.com]

MUCK was never meant to stand for anything. Revar made it 'MUCK' as a joke, since it was a fork from the TinyMUD code-base. In the years when we were working on it together, for a short time, we decided it -must- stand for 'Messed Up Code Kludge.' ;)

[frostedelves.livejournal.com]

People in charge of factions are politicians. ;) It's sort of unavoidable. RL or IC, you don't stay in charge if you're not up to playing politics... interfacing with as many other people as it takes to stay aware of events that affect you and to maintain alliances. Politics in any arena boils down to various groups or individuals all trying to make things happen (or not happen) in order to protect their own interests-- whether those interests be the accumulation of fun, attention, sex, money, or getting something specific done either for themselves or for the group they believe they represent.

[ruggels.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't I know it. Oddly for a while, I really enjoyed it. Then it wasn't fun, but I stayed on with a sense of duty.

Politics, was the only game that had consequences, and/or accountability on those "systemless Systems". I thought I did okay back in the day. Very memorable, that's for sure.


Scott

The Consequences of Poltics

[tamahori]

Sadly, since it was the only game with consequences, it ended up, at least on the MUCK I have in mind, being used as a tool to try and hammer people with ... it can be a dangerous thing to bring into a place.

Virtual Reality, real emotions ... something far too many of us forgot.


Brett

Re: Reasons for Poltics

[ruggels.livejournal.com]

Well sometimes "Out of Game" conduct, gives rise to reasons for "out of game" actions, that were not fun, but felt to be necessary. Then politics become a cause, rather than a fun passtime.

Scott

Re: Reasons for Poltics

[tamahori]

I've always though out-of-game conduct should be responded to with out-of-game actions, which is fair enough.

The problem was too many people taking their out-of-game attitudes and using the in-game politics to attack and try and hurt the people that had annoyed them.

Too many times, the politics system can be turned into a weapon by group A against group B that's trying to carry out an out-of-game argument, in-game, to the detriment of all involved.


I ended up in a situation where I, without realizing it, let somebody use an in-game system I designed to attack somebody for an, admittedly stupid, out-of-game mistake the target had made.

The result was the total destruction of the system in question, and the target leaving the game for good, something I still regret to this day, also my lack of any way to track the target down to apologize to them for allowing it to happen in the first place.

The attacker also left the game later on, but that was as part of a much more messy event that showed out-of-game attacks for out-of-game reasons can also screw things up badly. To be honest, how things went in the earlier event should have helped warn me about potential later behavior, ah well, you live and learn.


Brett

Re: The Consequences of Poltics

[ahicks.livejournal.com]

Honestly, it was a combination of factors - folks took things personally instead of taking a moment to chill out and remember 'it's just a game'. Others took things too far, and used politics to beat folks over the head.

It also was a very kludged-together setup. I sometimes wonder how things would have fared if more time/effort had been spent on the underlying structure of politics, instead of keeping things fairly loose, as was done.

And even in the real world, dude, people tend to get *really* emotional about politics. I speak from the position of one who would like election day to get here already, or else I'm going to strangle the far-left democrats/far-right republicans who sit next to me at work and argue incessantly about their respective candidate. :)

Re: The Consequences of Poltics

[tamahori]

As somebody that designed the system we're talking about specifically here, it was kind of a deliberate choice to leave it as casual and loose as we could to prevent people getting too tied up in it. Of course that didn't work very well.

Later on, when it did get more formalized, that just became another way for it to be used against people, tyeing them up in 'rules of conduct' and booting them out from any control over the structure that was being used to attack them.

I let myself get caught up in this ... I hope I've learned enough to not let myself do something that stupid again, though sadly I doubt I've managed to change the base attitudes I had on it.


Trying to let go of old issues is always a hard process ... I'm working on it though.


Brett

[tekenduis.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's the closet politician in me, but some of the best times I had on the MUCKs were when I was in a position of power, or actively politicking. I know I'm in the minority there, our "government" went out of fashion looong before I got bored with it (in fact, I'd probably still be doing them today if the whole thing hadn't collapsed in flames).

Of course, the other favourite times were when I was actively working against those bloody do-gooders and their government.

I don't know what that says about me....

[tekenduis.livejournal.com]

How tacky she is, replying to her own comment. But she forgot to add:

In fact, sometimes I was working for and against the council at the same time. Just in different windows. I had this thing with having a couple of windows open at a time to keep my interest up, and there were plenty of times when I had my characters working against each other simultaneously.

Rennyn's passionate speech on the necessity of the council in the face of threats juxtaposed nicely with Alois' plan to disrupt the council into permanant inaction. Alois' friendly chatter in the bar juxtaposed with Sylune's turning evidence of his actions over to the authorities, hoping that they would hunt him down and have him executed.

[tamahori]

Heh, I always did think you had some of the more interesting chars, and more interesting relationships between your chars going on.

On a total side note, I'm amused that almost all of the, very small set of, male chars that my main char ever though were worth getting involved with (that is to say, had an interesting personality that went beyond 'look at my big gun/wang') were run by people involved in this LJ post or replies to it. :)


Brett

[tekenduis.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Hey hey, the gang's all here? ;)

[ahicks.livejournal.com]

I forget which character of yours was there when some poor messenger with a thermos full of acid tried to make a delivery in that room. I distinctly recall being amused (and slightly annoyed in-character at having to go sit in a vat to regrow all the lost flesh).

[tekenduis.livejournal.com]

That was Alois. I believe Cain might've been there too. :)

[ahicks.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't surprise me.

Ahhh, memories. *shakes his fist at Points*

[stardreamink.livejournal.com]

Yes, I was there too, and got the worst of the acid splash. I lost a hand, an eye, and half of my pretty face to that... I had to stay out of public for three months until I was presentable. Sometimes being unable to use cybernetic implants or healing vats can be a real drag.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem with MUCKing is it's nothing more than "gaming by assertion." With no real mechanics available to establish competence or skill, and no ability to actually make any physical impact, all that is left to barter is emotion. Therefore, like high school (http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html), MUCKs (or at least the seven or so examples I am familiar with) degenerate into nothing more than emotion-based popularity contests.

This is politics of the most degenerate sort, where instead of the personality-less tailoring of one's image to win the votes of fringe groups, participants in MUCKs deliberately tailor their personalities to win emotion. As Graham notes in the above article,

Popularity is only partially about individual attractiveness. It's much more about alliances. To become more popular, you need to be constantly doing things that bring you close to other popular people, and nothing brings people closer than a common enemy. Like a politician who wants to distract voters from bad times at home, you can create an enemy if there isn't a real one.

In MUCKs, those who flame the most vociferously become the top dogs and bullies, and those who whine and whimper the most abjectly become the ineffective "nice" kids no one bothers. The sad thing is how accepted this completely false, empty charade is by its players.

Prevaricating for votes I can understand, if not condone -- but playing out the deceit for something as empty and valueless as typed-in false emotion is madness. Sadly, I've watched it happen repeatedly -- written communication devolves into turgid suggestions of emotion for others, which substitutes for real feelings like sincerity, courage, friendship, or love.

So at least superficially MUCKs do reflect politics well. However, as Graham later notes:

...I think the important thing about the real world is not that it's populated by adults, but that it's very large, and the things you do have real effects. That's what school, prison, and ladies-who-lunch all lack. The inhabitants of all those worlds are trapped in little bubbles where nothing they do can have more than a local effect. Naturally these societies degenerate into savagery. They have no function for their form to follow.

Add "MUCKers" to his list of folks who lack any sort of real life effects in their tiny and incestuous subcultures, and that pretty much sums up the situation. Aside from manipulating the feelings of others (whether through whining or bullying), there are no consequences for actions on MUCKs, and so the world created is about as complex as the pseudo-society described in "Lord of the Flies." Cheap post-adolescent rhetoric and the emotionally retarded are rewarded in a fashion they can't find in real life.

That's the difference between MUCKers and politicians -- politicians may be playing in a similar style of sandbox, but at least they're playing for a real, worthwhile goal.

-- Laughing Collie
Collie's Bestiary (http://www.stormtiger.com/collie)