Gaming Question Reduxious

[caraig]

So a pen-and-paper gaming question for anyone inclined.

In most RPGs, there's really no difference between 'secular' arcane magic and 'ecclesiastic' divine magic; the difference between the wizard and the cleric is really just the spell list and the cleric is better-armored. I'm trying to find a way to elegantly differentiate the two. Do any of y'all out there have favored ways of doing this, or favored systems, or just plain ideas?

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Arcane magic comes from The Weave, in the Forgotten Realms setting of D&D. The Weave is governed by Mystra, who ensures that everyone has access to the magic, and that at no time does good or evil greatly outpower the other, magically. This means that race, faith or creed, you'll always have access to the weave, even if you should slip from the halls of the hallowed to the depths of the damned. Arcane magic is a whore - unfaithful in every way, BUT always there for you when you need it, no matter what.

Divine magic is faith-based. You can NOT cast divine magic if you do not believe in a deity. You can NOT cast divine magic if you fall out of good graces with your deity. By good graces, I mean that if you act contrary to your diety's (and probably your) alignment, your deity will say essentially "You're a jerk", or "You're a goody-goody" and stop letting you eat from their fridge of spelly goodness. Even then, clerics who have run out of healing spells can substitute a casting of a spell and gain one casting of a healing spell of equivalent level. That is, "Cure Critical Wounds" or whatever for a good cleric and "Cause Critical Wounds" for an evil one.

Arcane casters either meditate on their spell selection for the day (Sorcerors) or study dusty tomes, preparing the words / preliminary magics in their head, (wizards) and saying the words and making the gestures and tossing around bat crap (or whatever) once they want to cast the spell.

Arcane and Divine spells are as different as science and faith. But, like science and faith, they both can be used towards the same end.

Damn it, I forgot to log in. Above post is mine. (nt)

[jhakhm.livejournal.com]

no text

Re: Damn it, I forgot to log in. Above post is mine. (nt)

[caraig.livejournal.com]

Well, that's the explaination in the Forgotten Realms setting, which after playing on an NWN server for several years is admittedly very well thought-out and quite descriptive! =) I was just trying to move away from the DND paradigm on the system side of things -- are there game systems that make a clear delineation -- mechanics-wise, not just separae spell lists -- for secular and ecclesiastic spellcasters?

This might, of couse, be a loosing battle. Historically, 'secular' and 'ecclesiastic' magic has often been much tightly tied together than most people realize. Even the most secular of 'mages,' John Dee and Roger Bacon, both invoked angels in their magicks; John Dee's entire Enochian system is based on angelic intervention. So even in the 'real world' it's hard to separate secular from ecclesiastic magic.